Throughout time the Lord has caused Gospel principles to be discontinued when the general body of the Church rejects these teachings. A similar fate may soon occur to the principles of agency and freedom…
Latter-day Saints, in general, appear to be rejecting the principles of agency and freedom. This rejection may slowly be causing a change in the official position of the church – similar to what happened during the time of Samuel in ancient Israel. If this change continues to the point where the Church officially rejects the principles of liberty, those who continue to defend these principles could be at risk of a similar fate as those who continued to defend other principles that are no longer the official position of the Church – complete apostasy and excommunication. While there is still time, we, as LDS liberty-lovers, must continue to labor in advancing the cause of liberty so this day of apostasy never is realized.
Over the years I have heard many times the murmuring comments, “Why don’t the Brethren speak as much about the Constitution as they used to?”, “Why aren’t the Brethren as bold as they once were on the principles of freedom?” or some variety of the same intent. I have always felt that this was basically just whining from people that thought they could deliver the message better than the servant of the Lord and basically nonsense.
This complaint is not new, has been around for at least 43 years, and our Church leaders have dismissed it as a lie from Satan.
“‘We really haven’t received much instruction about freedom,’ the devil says. This is a lie, for we have been warned time and again…” Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference April 1965
We continue to this day to be warned regarding our duty to preserve freedom and the US Constitution. In February of 2006, an Ensign article written by a General Authority of the Church taught us “What a sacred privilege and responsibility is ours to participate with other like-minded people to ensure that basic freedoms are preserved wherever we reside.” Shirley D. Christensen, “‘I, the Lord God, Make You Free’,” Ensign, Feb 2006
The admonition to defend freedom did not stop there as we can see from this video produced in December of 2007 called, “Why is it important for Church members to participate in the political process?” In the video, Elder Ballard says, “The very fundamental principle of freedom is absolutely essential for the Gospel of Jesus Christ to prosper… (T)hat principle of sustaining the Constitution… is a very, very important principle and has been taught since the very beginning in the history of our Church.”
And finally this year (2008), in the October General Conference, President Boyd K Packer teaches us the vital lesson that the Lord “established the Constitution of this land”.
That is three years, three consecutive years of Apostles and General Authorities of the Church speaking boldly regarding the Heavenly nature of the Constitution and our duty to it! President Benson is right; it is a lie from Lucifer himself to say that we have not received much instruction about freedom.
That being said, this author believes if the Elders of Israel do not repent and act now, teaching those statements of the General Authorities above in the future will be tantamount to apostasy. Sound crazy? Let me explain.
In a talk helping members of the Church to gain a greater understanding of Church Welfare services, President Marion G. Romney started out teaching the principle of agency. President Romney stated that, “Agency, (n)ext to life itself, it is man’s most precious inheritance” President Romney then relates the two subjects together and says, “I suggest we consider what has happened to our agency with respect to contributing to the means used by the bureaucracy in administering government welfare services.”
After explaining how the Church welfare program protects agency, he quotes President Clark who explains how the destruction of agency and the family are the end result of Satan’s fraud, “You must remember that back and behind this whole propaganda of ‘pensions’, gratuities, and doles to which we are now being subjected, is the idea of setting up in America, a socialistic or communistic state, in which the family would disappear, religion would be prescribed and controlled by the state, and we should all become mere creatures of the state, ruled over by ambitious and designing men.” (General Conference April 1976)
In a General Conference talk given by then Howard W. Hunter, linking the dangers to our agency to the dole, he said “We are to be free from dependence upon a dole or any program that might endanger our free agency.” (General Conference October 1975)
He gave an explanation of this by saying, “Personal unrighteousness can lead toward a welfare state. What is the real cause of this trend toward the welfare state, toward more socialism? In the last analysis, in my judgment, it is personal unrighteousness. When people do not use their freedoms responsibly and righteously, they will gradually lose these freedoms. If man will not recognize the inequalities around him and voluntarily, through the gospel plan, come to the aid of his brother, he will find that through “a democratic process” he will be forced to come to the aid of his brother. The government will take from the “haves” and give to the “have nots.” Both have lost their freedom. Those who “have,” lost their freedom to give voluntarily of their own free will and in the way they desire. Those who “have not,” lost their freedom because they did not earn what they received. They got “something for nothing,” and they will neither appreciate the gift nor the giver of the gift. Under this climate, people gradually become blind to what has happened and to the vital freedoms which they have lost.” (Howard W. Hunter, The Teachings of Howard W. Hunter, edited by Clyde J. Williams [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997], 169.)
Compulsion and slavery are Satan’s alternative to the Savior’s program of agency and independence and the Brethren have stated that government welfare affects our agency. Just as Satan set up his imitation of agency, the Brethren have also stated Satan set up his imitation for caring for the poor.
In addition to the above statements condemning government welfare, Social Security was also specifically condemned by at least one Prophet in General Conference:
“I have had some of the most insulting letters that ever came to me, condemning me for not being in favor of the Townsend Plan (original name of Social Security), and that I must be ignorant of the plan. I am not ignorant of the plan… it is in direct opposition to everything I have quoted from Brigham Young and from the revelations of the Lord.” – Heber J. Grant, General Conference Oct 1936
With the Brethren pointing out the fact that the counterfeit the world has set up to care for the poor and needy is a false alternative that takes away our agency and destroys the family, it is no wonder they have made such statements as these:
“Occasionally, we receive questions as to the propriety of Church members receiving government assistance instead of Church assistance. Let me restate what is a fundamental principle. Individuals, to the extent possible, should provide for their own needs. Where the individual is unable to care for himself, his family should assist. Where the family is not able to provide, the Church should render assistance, not the government.” (Elder Ezra Taft Benson General Conference April 1977)
And finally, this last General Conference (Oct 2008), Bishop Keith B. McMullin quoting President Monson said, “Welfare principles . . . do not change. They will not change. They are revealed truths.”
It seems pretty clear right? It is a principle that government welfare takes away the agency of the giver and the receiver, destroys the family unit, and leads to the government controlling the Church. For that reason we are not to receive welfare assistance from the government, and these welfare principles do not change… or do they?
Speaking to an Area Authority that will remain anonymous, I was made aware that a member of the Twelve Apostles (which I will not name) was in charge of and approved the following text from official manuals of the Church:
“In some instances, individual members may decide to receive assistance from other sources, including government.” -Handbook of Instructions & the booklet, Providing in the Lord’s Way
“Government welfare agencies should be contacted only if the Church is unable to help us in the ways we need help.” -Lesson 12: The Father’s Responsibilities for the Welfare of His Family, Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood: Basic Manual for Priesthood Holders, Part A,
“Members may choose to use services in the community to meet their basic needs. Such services include hospitals, physicians, or other sources of medical care” -Handbook of Instructions & the booklet, Providing in the Lord’s way
My last example, the “Managing Household Finances Wisely” course on the Church’s website, ProvidentLiving.org, encourages the use of the government welfare program/Ponzi scheme called Social Security -http://www.providentliving.org/media/training/peaceheart/main.html
These “changes” sound rather innocuous I admit, but under the direction of this same unnamed Apostle, these statements are to be interpreted by local authorities as a recommendation to tell members to seek government welfare assistance. Additionally, much more bold language in favor of government welfare is used by local authorities all over the world.
So what? Who cares if there has been a “toning down” of what members are being told regarding government welfare? Well, there are a few ramifications that I would like to submit:
1. Either past and current Prophets were wrong in regards to what happens when people use government welfare or our current leaders are telling us do something that will, at the absolute minimum, take away the agency of all involved, destroy the family unit, and lead to the government controlling the Church.
2. If “Latter-day conservatives” promote or share the position of supporting agency, they are in opposition to the official position of the Church as found in its manuals and General Handbook of Instructions.
3. The admonitions of Elder Ballard to “sustain the Constitution” and President John Taylor (among scores of others) to, “Perpetuate… the free agency of man” are now invalid since Federal welfare is a violation of the US Constitution and violates the agency of man and we are now advised to take part in those programs.
I ask you, what happens to members of the Church that advocate other principles of the Gospel that are now against the official position of the Church? Will advocates of agency share the same fate?
I believe and submit to you, without exception (to my knowledge), that all principles of the Gospel revealed since the restoration that have been discontinued is the result of what is commonly referred to as “The Samuel Principle”. In the Old Testament, we read the account of how the majority of God’s chosen people rejected the Lord’s council en mass. For generations they were ruled under a system of judges, not drastically unlike our Constitutional Republic. Then, because it was “too much effort” for them to keep their judges in check, they wanted to replace it with one where they wouldn’t have to do anything in regards to their government. Just like the other nations of the world, they would have a king.
“Then the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, and said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways; now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.’ But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, ‘Give us a king to judge us.’ And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee; for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.” (1 Samuel 8:4–7)
Time does not permit me to give sufficient examples of how this applies to the principle of agency and government welfare, so I will limit it to just one more. In October of 2007, Nevada Senator and member of the Church, Harry Reid, had this to say about teachings of the Prophets in regards to agency and government welfare:
“(T)hese people have taken members of the church down the path that is the wrong path.”
With this and the statements recounted above by President Grant, among many other easily available examples, we see that there is a pattern of the people rejecting the revealed word of God on the matter, and as in ancient times, I am concerned that we are rejecting the Lord which means He cannot reign over us.
So what do we do? To escape the promised consequences of rejecting the Lord, we must repent. We must stop receiving government welfare, we must stop demanding government welfare, we must increase our fast offerings, and we must educate others and encourage them to take the same action. We must recognize as Howard W Hunter said that, “When people do not use their freedoms responsibly and righteously, they will gradually lose these freedoms. If man will not recognize the inequalities around him and voluntarily, through the gospel plan, come to the aid of his brother, he will find that through “a democratic process” he will be forced to come to the aid of his brother… (and) (b)oth have lost their freedom.” (Howard W. Hunter, The Teachings of Howard W. Hunter, edited by Clyde J. Williams [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997], 169.) We must do as President Hinckley said, “If we are to build that Zion of which the prophets have spoken and of which the Lord has given mighty promise, we must set aside our consuming selfishness. We must rise above our love for comfort and ease, and in the very process of effort and struggle, even in our extremity, we shall become better acquainted with our God.” (General Conference, Oct. 1991).
Failure is not an option.
This presupposes that the leaders of the church are the whipping boys of the church. I do not believe that. The Lord will withdraw them from our midst when we “stone them,” but they will never even feign to support satan, his policies etc… What they say is not deception, but the word of the Lord to us.
Do you believe that blacks as the seed of cain remain unfit for the priesthood? Do you believe that we were just given what we asked for under the influence of the “civil rights” movement?
A perfect man walked a straight and narrow path and decided that it would be better to drive it. Did his car have a steering wheel? It did, but the question I leave to you is why?
It doesn’t presuppose anything. Everything is based on a foundation laid-out and built upon throughout the article.
You made statements without facts or history to back them being presuppositions in and of themselves.
The Lord throughout history has said yes to wicked things after warning us of the consequences and we chose to reject Him. The article laid out at least two examples.
Another example of the Samuel principle would be the food storage commandments. My mother told me they used to ask us to get a seven year supply (in harmony with scripture). Then for a long time it was a one year supply. Now the church website has no mention of a year supply and instead asks us to get as much as we can and to have a 72-hour kit. So we went from 7 years to 72 hours. What’s next? A more localized version of the Samuel principle would be when Joseph Smith asked repeatedly to give away part of the Book of Mormon. The Father told him no several times, then said yes. After that part of the manuscript was lost Joseph repented even though he had been given permission from God. Why did he repent? What will we and our leaders be repenting of in the future?
By Jeremy Parker on Nov 11, 2009 | Reply
Do you believe that blacks as the seed of cain remain unfit for the priesthood? Do you believe that we were just given what we asked for under the influence of the “civil rights” movement?
Answer: NO… NO…
Why did the Lord decide only the Levites of Israel could have the priesthood in ancient Israel? Why wouldn’t the Lord listen to his prophet (Spencer W. Kimball) who pled with the Lord concerning the priesthood (especially if the people were ready)? There were some “blacks” with the Priesthood in early church history 1800′s but it was not common practice perhaps that should say more about our society around us rather than the church. The Nephites became so wicked that the Lord shut Mormon’s mouth (from preaching) because people were not ready. The children of Israel under Moses wondered the wilderness and never entered the promise land because the were not ready. I am a descendant of the Lamanites whose people had dwindled in unbelief from time to time because they were not ready to receive the truth.
A perfect man walked a straight and narrow path and decided that it would be better to drive it. Did his car have a steering wheel? It did, but the question I leave to you is why?
Answer:To go obstacles on the path and give him freedom of choice to turn of the path if he so chose otherwise there would be no free agency.
? Not sure what you are getting at there. I also think you have a little bit of history mixed up. History is what happened, not what we say happened to make it seem like we are so much more sophisticated today. Sure, somethings, wont say which here, are changed because we are worthy of more, but one has to admit that there is precedence for things being changed because we demanded our King. The key is in figuring out which is which.
I believe that there are many thoughtful and sane members who are concerned at what appears to be the lack of a “clarion call” from cour Church leaders regarding the defense of our freedoms and liberties as Americans.
Yes, if you listen very, very closely (and don’t blink) you can catch a sentence here, or a phrase there in a conference talk on the subject of the need to work diligently to protect our liberty . But, as the Scriptures say “who will answer the call of an uncertain trump”?
We are all smart enough to tell what the “theme” of a conference is, and generally discern what is foremost on the minds of the 1st Presidency and the Q12. I believe there are also many who can recall the extended and detailed instruction and pronouncements of the likes of President Benson, President Kimball, and President Hunter in particular, which are in no way visible today in the utterances we diligently search.
Yes, ours is a global church with a majority of members outside the USA and outside of span of our form of governemt. Yes, there are strict tax and other legal liabilities that the Church must carefully navigate whenever it steps beyond pure religious content. But need to defend our liberty and freedoms surely warrants a clear trumpet call.
There is so much that can be done within the Church while still clearly avoiding any “red or blue” discussions–which we must carefully avoid. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Church leaders, including Stake Presidents and Bishops, challenged their members to get and read the founding documents or our Country, along with other key documents like the writings of Washington, Jefferson, and Payne…and then re-read Mosiah and Alma? Wouldn’t it be wonderful if there were a Stake specialist called to help find and publish a non-partisan local guide to “getting involved in your local community decision making and leadership selections”?
The history of the BOM revolves around Prophets and Generals, eternal principles and temporal leadership and governance. We have the Prophets. They cannot be the Generals, as the role of the Church must be to protect and exercise sacred “keys” and programs. It is our role is to defend our freedoms as well as the Church. But, wouldn’t it be wonderful to hear this from the lips of those we follow; to listen in to their prayers as they pray for what they wish we would stand forth and do in these times? If not now, when?
In July of 2009, the Ensign had an insert which said one of the ways to be self reliant was to take government welfare. Not only is this irony in the extreme, but is yet another example of the point of this article.
It is possible for a latter-day saint to responsibly use the government safety net, but the obligation to become self-reliant is just as applicable as those whose circumstances force them to use the Church’s welfare system. Those who are in that position must not succumb to remain dependent on either system.
There is another apostasy that may take place, however. It is related to the conditions of which the author speaks here. 2 Nephi 30:10 speaks of a “great division” that will take place. The wicked will be destroyed by it and the Lord will spare his people. My own opinion is that the split will occur over tithe-paying, personal debt, and having a supply of food, etc. Those are the minimum qualifications, so to speak, to get on the “ark” in the last days. Lorenzo Snow taught that the United Order is that ark for us.
The foolish “virgins” who don’t prepare, who don’t pay tithing, who have tons of debt from an extravagant lifestyle, and who don’t have any food, won’t be able to enter the ark when the time comes. This will result in a split in the Church. There will be LDS folks who believe, but didn’t obey and there will be those who believed and did obey. The ones who didn’t obey won’t be able to practice consecration, because you can’t consecrate what you don’t have or what you don’t own outright.
I anticipate these things will occur when the US and the world economy collapses in the future. Those who can’t enter into a united order will have to rely on the state, which will take over every aspect of their lives.
President Thomas Monson in his first talk to the priesthood as Prophet told us that “The stability of the nations is being ruined by political machinations. Tyrants and despots are everywhere leaving the people downtrodden, oppressed, without opportunity and with a feeling of failure.” (Paraphrase) He then told the priesthood it was their responsibility to fix it. (April 2008)
His next talk given to the priesthood he quoted Ezekiel saying; “I will give you a new spirit and a new heart and this new spirit and new heart will cause you to live the statutes and judgments.”
He continued; How do we receive this great blessing, how do we receive this great promise, is there a procedure to follow? This applies to the deacon as well as the high priest, Learn what you must learn, do what you must do, and be what you must be.” (paraphrase)
What must we learn? The statues and judgments of course. What are the statues and judgments? The Statues and judgments of the Law of Moses, the foundation of the U.S. Constitution. What must we do? Step forward and save the constitution. What must we be? The kind of people that can live the statutes and judgments I.E. Constitutional law. (Oct 2008)
Bishop Burton mentions twice in his comments here about the Evils of the dole and the belief of entitlement.
He says that the bishops are to help people not rely on the dole. While using local community programs may be needed, he does not say that the dole is a way to live, but that it is evil. Just thought I would point it out.
http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,8885-1-4981-1,00.html
Yes, Bill it would be wonderful if Church leaders, including Stake Presidents and Bishops, challenged their members to get and read the founding documents or our Country, along with other key documents like the writings of Washington, Jefferson, and Payne…and then re-read Mosiah and Alma. It would be lovely if there were a Stake specialist called to help find and publish a non-partisan local guide to “getting involved in your local community decision making and leadership selections” My efforts to promote such in our ward have fallen flat. When I suggested such to our bishop, who, BTW, well understands the dangers to our remaining freedoms (his father is JBS) he told me there are much bigger problems to deal with. I believe our stake presidency and most if not all of the high council would consider attention given to constitutional principles and freedom to be an undesirable distraction from the current goals of increasing temple readiness, temple attendance, home/visiting teaching, family solidarity, etc.
Check out the podcast on this topic http://ldsliberty.org/?p=261
OH what a horrible article! Argh! If this was true, then all those with food storage would be excommunicated for “looking beyond the mark” and doing more than everyone else in the church! There are so many things wrong with this, I can’t even begin! Also, if this logic is correct, then obviously, when Christ died, and the church became hellenized, the apostles were OBVIOUSLY the ones who apostatized because they did not follow the MAINSTREAM of the church!
The quote is “follow the prophet and THE MAJORITY OF THE BRETHREN”! Not the mainstream of the church!
Jake
Regarding: Social Security which was voted as a “Targeted Retirement” funded for and by those “Workers” who contributed to it… Medicare was added many years latter as part of the same… Over time it became just another General Tax to those who contributed to it…
Obviously it is and has been abused…
However, over the last 150 Quarters I have contributed about $2,000,000 in to-days $$$… .. If i received $40,000/year it would take 50 years to break even, (age 115)…
The 16,00 I receive is not a dole…. It is grand theft by the Government…
Bryan, In your comment you stated the following.
“In July of 2009, the Ensign had an insert which said one of the ways to be self reliant was to take government welfare. Not only is this irony in the extreme, but is yet another example of the point of this article.”
Could you please show me where in the July 2009 Ensign it said this. I found a section about the welfare training of the church, but nowhere did it mention that members should take government welfare to help them be self reliant. I went through the whole issue twice and that section three times and couldn’t find it. It might be there, but before I trust what you said, please show me exactly where it said that.
If you are going to make comments like this, please provide the exact reference. Too many rumors and false doctrine has been spread by people sharing things they thought they heard without giving direct sources.
Good point James It was an insert not on the online version. Here is the pdf of the insert
https://www.ldsjobs.org/Static%20Files/ERS/Surviving_Unempl_PD50017002_000_-LTR.pdf
Also, Keith, President Benson said not to justify receiving govt gratuities by saying you are a contributing tax payer. http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6162&x=43&y=2
I share the author’s concerns and have a few thoughts of my own to add to this discussion.
First I was disappointed some months ago when I overheard a pair of conversations at work where one coworker was was recommending to another that the second should get on WIC as the first had done. Then a few days/weeks later the second thanked the first for the recommendation indicating his family was now using the program and thought it was great.
These are both Melchizedek priesthood holders with families comparable in composition to mine and the three of us all make the same money. I thought to my self these guys don’t realize it but in a way they are taking that food off of MY table.
Then a summer or 2 back some of the LDS families in the neighborhood (including a counselor in the bishopric who has since been called as Bishop) were sending their kids to a local school for free lunches (I guess they just feed anybody of school age who shows up) and our kids had been invited to go along. my wife and I discussed it and decided that we didn’t want our kids going based on our feelings about the appropriateness of such a program even existing in the first place. (Full disclosure: my kids are home schooled).
Now at the same time when on occasions my tax refund has exceeded the amount that was withheld from my wages I have had no trouble cashing the check. Also I was able to buy a “modest home” (as the brethren suggest) several years earlier than my projections due to the $8000 first time home buyer tax credit.
Now with that said how many of us here would feel it appropriate or beneficial to the missions of the church if the brethren intimated that using government assistance could affect a persons membership in the church? Or their worthiness to attend the temple?
This is a touchy subject, and I don’t have answers.
To end I would like to point out the words of the Lord in D&C 58:26–29 ( which i summarize in my own words as “on some days ‘follow the prophet’ just isn’t good enough.”)
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.
29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.
I think being active in support of the constitution easily falls into this category. Liberating mankind from political tyranny is not one of the missions of the church (remember the Jews were looking for a political savior as they rejected Christ)… but maintaining liberty is certainly worthwhile and those who pursue it will in no wise lose their reward.
sorry if my ending seems OT… But I’d hate for any one to confuse “being anxiously engaged in a good cause” with “looking beyond the mark”.
I have seen this exact thing in my ward. I have had debates with other elder’s in my quorum regarding the socilaization of our country, and people’s increased reliance on government handouts, and how it decreases personal liberty, and that we have been counceled against it, and even quoted Ezra Taft Benson… and been met with shrugs. “Well, that was 25 years ago… if it was important and true, Pres. Monson would be talking about it.” I don’t even know what to say to that. Perhaps he was trying to mentally justify his vote for Obama, but…
Incidentally, I just found this site today, and I LOVE it. There are WAY too few opportunities I get to hang out with other freedom loving, realizing-what-is-going-on LDS brothers/sisters. Everyone is asleep as we teeter over the abyss. Everyone seems perfectly aware of all the MORAL dangers around us, but Satan doesn’t confine himself to just that particular battlefield.
Another way to look at this situation is this: while the Saints are at liberty to shun coerced systems and embrace the social order of freedom, that is the path they must travel, but as the peaceful society and order of things gets replaced by coercive government, it becomes increasingly difficult to run from the order being forced upon us.
For instance, I attempted getting a college degree without government grants or loans, lacking parental support to do so, and working two jobs while attending school full-time, which nearly killed me, school which was overly expensive thanks to government meddling; then I began raising a family and paid dearly for private insurance so we would not use the government to pay for our babies though our poverty easily qualified us to use Medicaid, medicine which was too expensive thanks to government tweaking; I could go on and on, but eventually, we realized that the only path to any measure of living a bountiful life was to quit trying to be heroic in order to maintain poverty. After years of denying ourselves the EIC benefit on our income taxes, we finally took it and are finally making goals to get out of our extreme poverty.
There really is a trap associated with poverty, if you are not selling your soul to the welfare office, you are doing so with the pawn broker to pay for unexpected expenses, and living on less than your potential because of the urgency of living: just paying rent each month is a valiant experience. And while I have lowered my standards in order to raise my standard of living, I wish that conservatives who see the evil in socialism would have a little more heart towards those that accept those needed services. The real evil is in voting for and upholding leaders who enact such things, less so in partaking of the spoils.
You simply can’t fault the Children of Israel for not having a year’s food storage while living in Egypt, neither can you fault Latter-Day Saints for not all making the six-figure, single-earner incomes that a large, ideal LDS family now requires today in this modern world.
And while we talk of socialism, how about the socialism in giving free military defense to socialist nations so that they can spend their money on their own social services rather than in national defense, at the cost of U.S. taxpayers? Such is the case for Japan, Saudi Arabia, and much of Europe. We’ve pledged to defend them at little of their own expense so that they can have free health care and education and then snub their noses at hapless Americans who never question their nation’s military exploits in over 135 countries around the world.
Kelton, though I understand the feeling, I think the premise of needing x amount of $ is false.
Did not the Lord tell us he will provide a way to obey every commandment he gives us?
If we are accountable to our actions in relation to government in both the making and administration of law, and we are commanded not to use compulsion amongst our fellow man, then that would apply is the administration of compulsion through our agent the government.
The consequences are promised, and real. The Lord does provide a way, but His ways are not our ways.
You people think to much. Do what you have been told from the beginning, it has all been said. Those that have taken councel from early leaders like Mckay, J.Ruben Clark and Benson years ago now know where this country is headed and how to prepair. What a blessing you have been given. ” Be still and know I am God” The Lord and his prophet will never forsake those who are prepared. I know for those of you in the know this is a stretch of faith, is for me to!
I think this article is pretty much spot on.
These days the Lord needs Christians who are not tossed about by every
wind and wave of doctrine; who are not being made merchandise of; who
have discernment and are not being deceived; who need no special teacher
with some new revelation; who do not need a human shepherd to guide
their every step; who do not have to depend on someone else for their
happiness or spiritual strength —but who have been tested and tried and have proven that the very life of God is in them, providing grace and mercy to help in every need. Christ has been revealed not only to them, but in them. They are drawing on the strength of their inner man, according to the riches of His glory. -David Wilkerson
I have 2 points to make:
1) The “Samuel principle” is dangerous territory when talking to fellow members of the Church at home and meetinghouse. Every person I’ve ever spoken with has agreed wholeheartedly that such a principle has been evidenced time and again throughout history. However, if you bring up the possibility of such occurrences in today’s Church, you immediately paint a big “I’m a nutball and question current Church leadership decisions” target on your back. This happens even when you have a strong testimony of the Restored Gospel and have frequently shared it with those around you. As such, if we are to have any impact on those around us in embracing the liberty philosophy, we must be sure to emphasize the doctrinal support for liberty and let them identify the negative trend within the Church, at least partially, on their own.
2) Keith and Kelton’s opinions should not be so quickly dismissed. Several of those commenting above need to reassess what they mean by “the dole.” When contextualized, the statements made by Church leaders seem to indicate present usage means unearned income (else we would talk of “wages”) provided by the government. Keith’s point is certainly merited. Why should his money be used by the government bureaucrats to support measures he rejects? Keith, get your money back! You didn’t support their measures, so why would you let the socialists who did vote for those measures use your money? Seeking to get your money back from an entity which coerced you out of it is not living on “the dole.” It is getting your money back using the only channels you are capable of as an individual citizen. If you seek more than the money which was taken from you, you are guilty of living on “the dole.”
Sorry so long, but one last point. Kelton’s post is far more complex and illustrates how several of the above mentioned prophetic teachings are already coming to pass. I’m referring to those which indicate the welfare state imprisons people. Due to easy money provided for by the Fed, all of us suffer from the inflationary problems, especially in sectors such as education. The state is tightening up the ship and positioning itself as an even more powerful monopoly (check out the semi-hidden education finance bill which passed attached to the health reform bill recently) and seeks to force people to become increasingly subject to the whims of the state. Both you and your extended family/ward family would be financially healthier were it not for the state and would “need” government help far less, if at all. However, should other tax-payers shoulder the recompenses due to those who suffer under terrible monetary policies? There isn’t an easy answer because your suffering is real and the culprit is easily identifiable. The culprit just happens to be a sleazebag who steals from others to recompense you. I don’t think anyone should pass judgment on your decisions.
I consider myself as “being anxiously engaged in a good cause”, but I’ve learned thru the grapevine that our stake presidency considers me as “looking beyond the mark”.
A few weeks ago a stake high councilman made a couple of statements to our ward that I and apparently a few others understood to mean that we members of the Church should not concern ourselves with “conspiracy theories”. I have written him saying “That’s good advice as long as one does not apply it to specific warnings of conspiracies (a.k.a. secret combinations) given in our scriptures and by latter-day prophets and apostles.” I’m anxious to receive a reply.
Jeff said,
“Now the church website has no mention of a year supply and instead asks us to get as much as we can and to have a 72-hour kit. So we went from 7 years to 72 hours.”
This is a highly inaccurate statement.
Provident Living says this:
Where do I start?
Start by adding a few storable items that you typically eat, storing some water that is safe to drink, and saving some money, if only a few coins each week. Then over time, expand these initial efforts—as individual circumstances allow and where permitted—by storing a longer-term supply of basics such as grains, beans, and other staples.
What’s the difference between the three-month and longer-term supply items?
Three-month supply items are foods that you normally eat, including canned and commercially packaged foods. Longer-term supply items are basic food items like grains and beans that have very low moisture content (about 10% or less), can be stored for long periods of time (20–30 years), and would sustain life if nothing else were available to eat. A portion of longer-term supply items may be rotated into the three-month supply.
What about 72-hour kits?
Church members are encouraged to prepare for adversity by building a basic supply of food, water, money, and, over time, longer-term supply items. Beyond this, Church members may choose to store additional items that could be of use during times of distress.
http://providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,7636-1-4104-1,00.html
I believe that the restoration of faith , and families for freedom… demands that we recognize principles and precedence that do or would sustain such… and stand and defend liberty and law that would and does recognize the rights – and responsibilities of self governing people. Hold reps accountable to their oathes of office.. by organizing volunteer committees of oversight…
http://S-HeritageInternationalConsultingInc.com
Another recent talk that was one of the most powerful anti-socialism talks was given by Elder Dallin H. Oaks entitled “Repentance and Change” – from Oct. 2003 General Conference.
A fantastic report!
I do want to add that there will be no apostasy this time. The real tragedy is that many members will leave the church because of their disagreement with its standards.
I have a few points to fuel the discussion that are not so obvious.
The purpose of avoiding government welfare, as I understand it, was because: (1) over time, relying on welfare destroys our ability to be self reliant; and, (2) it is considered theft through government.
Consider that maybe only a few years are left to prepare for the hardships that are coming. Then consider how that affects the points above. This would make it so that: (1) if we needed to rely on welfare, there is not enough time left for it to destroy our ability to be self-reliant; and, (2) the Lord is justifying His people in obtaining that which they need to survive the next few years, even if it does mean obtaining it through theft by government (somewhat like Nephi was justified in killing Laban, especially since the destruction of the current government and the country is nearly made sure and the government will continue to steal anyway).
I know of people that need welfare, but use it wisely to build their food storage (e.g. purchasing bulk wheat at Macey’s grocery store, etc.). If time is that short, would not their actions then be justified, based on what the church handbook states?
This is a timely article. 2nd Nephi 28:14 predicts a general state of apostasy within Christianity in the last days, affecting even “many” members of the Church(humble followers of Christ). President J. Reuben Clark Jr. and President Ezra Taft Benson in particular identified the source of these apostate “precepts of men” as LDS priesthood leaders on the local, stake, and general level. “Yes, within the Church today there are tares among the wheat and wolves within the flock. As President(J. Reuben) Clark stated, ‘The RAVENING WOLVES are amongst us, from our own membership, and they, more than any others, are clothed in sheep’s clothing because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood…We should be careful of them’…(J. Reuben Clark Jr., CR, April 1949, p. 163) “The wolves amongst our flock are more numerous and devious today than when Pres. Clark made this statement…Not only are there apostates within our midst, but there are also apostate doctrines that are sometimes taught in our classes and from our pulpits and that appear in our publications. And these apostate precepts of men cause our people to stumble…”(Ezra Taft Benson, CR, April, 1969, p. 11) “What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction. Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God WHETHER they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders , did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, WHETHER their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, OR NOT.(Brigham Young, JD, Jan. 12, 1862, 9:151) “Sometimes from behind the pulpit, in our classrooms, in our COUNCIL MEETINGS, we hear, read, or witness things that do not square with the truth. This is especially true WHERE FREEDOM IS INVOLVED. Now do not let this serve as an excuse for your own wrongdoing. The Lord is letting the wheat and the tares mature before he fully purges the Church. HE IS ALSO TESTING YOU TO SEE IF YOU WILL BE MISLED. The devil is trying to deceive the very elect”.(Ezra Taft Benson, Oct. 1966, in an address to the student body at BYU) “Some lesser men have used in the past, and will use in the future, their offices unrightously. Some will, ignorantly or otherwise, use their office to PROMOTE FALSE COUNCIL; some will use it to persuade us that all is well in Zion; some will use it to COVER AND EXCUSE THEIR IGNORANCE…Let us live close to the Spirit SO WE CAN TEST ALL COUNCIL…”Ezra Taft Benson, CR, Oct. 2, 1966.
In other words, the principle of unquestioned obedience to our priesthood leaders is a false principal. The Lord will not reward us for such spiritual laziness. Keep in mind that when David O. McKay was the president of the Church, satanic socialism had become so widely accepted among LDS priesthood leaders that Pres. McKay assigned his councilor J. Reuben Clark Jr. to interview every professor at BYU as well as every member of the administrative staff, and summarily fire all those who would not renounce socialism and agree to stop teaching it. There was weeping and wailing amongst LDS socialists when this took place. Now, remember that this was about 45 years ago. Try to imagine how much worse the problem is today. Mark Benson, son of Ezra Taft Benson, told a close personal friend of mine in Salt Lake that with the death of his Father, the socialists in the Church had taken over. Considering the number of good, conservative, LDS I have known over the years, including myself, who were released from all their callings immediately after quoting President Benson on the responsibility we have to defend the Constitution, it is easy for me to believe this. It is good to know the Church is true. It is a lot better to know Jesus Christ, and be familiar with and committed to the Gospel He taught. What is the best way to do this? The greatest prophet who ever lived, even Joseph Smith, said it was to abide by the precepts in the Book of Mormon. Nuff said!